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October 21, 2009

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aupanner

FWIW, I agree for the most part. But to me, it's misleading to say the US doesn't make anything of "value" to the world. I mean, what truly has value in the world? What does the rest of the world produce that we're missing? If the point is that the US needs to have a better broader base/foundation to its economy rooted in manufacturing and production of goods - then I'm asking what goods really have value?

The problem is still going to be the risk of over leveraging and the cycles of capital. This time, the system was just so over-leveraged that the down cycle is that much more painful.

But at the end of the day, economies are just complex ponzi schemes built on the need for societies to maintain (and continuously 'improve') a quality of life. It's apparently human nature to want more this more that, better this better that. But it isn't real. Let's envision a catastrophic collapse of the "financial system" - fast forward to Mad Max scenarios. What really has value in those scenarios? Food, water, shelter, fire/energy, clothing, health (maybe). So, economies built on things in excess of those basic needs is temporary and non-essential by definition.

I know I'm out there with this post, but I think it is legit.

stank

This is getting deep. Almost all mass manufactured goods are crap and are designed to quickly expire. then they fill our landfills for thousands of years.

Stocks and bonds are just paper; their value is purely symbolic, that is illusory. Going back to crafts and craftsmen is not going to work for a nation of 300,000,000 plus. We need a new way that no one has yet thought of. We're screwed.

aupanner

true, going back to crafts and craftsmen won't work. we are screwed, pretty much.

but the point i am making is that this need for a broader economic base of 'making stuff' is as illusory as anything else. case in point: how is china's system doing with it's "broad" economic base as the world's manufacturer? the problem is over leveraging, over exposure to a particular risk, etc.

personally, i see a solution to the world's energy issue as the next necessary breakthrough to get things going in any meaningful way (like nuclear). in the meantime, we're looking at decades of negative growth and a settlement at the no-growth level where people adjust their lifestyles to doing without the luxuries of the past generation. Not everyone needs a fancy stroller for their infant.

With a new source of (cheaper and abundant) energy, the rules change. However, it's a nice dream and I realize in the meantime we have to live in reality.

But growth in any other sector is just another bubble.

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